A New Way To Unarmed

Questions related to mechanics or builds
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A New Way To Unarmed

#1 Post by Dsiban » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:32 am

What if a new ability were added that allows the player to change their strike damage type? This could be done with a styles or elemental embodiment flavor. Strikes aren't subject to resistances, so the choice would never be detrimental, and with smart play the choice would be advantageous. Additional affects specific to each damage type could be added as well, but if these were on-hit effects a line of spam would be reintroduced.

Physical damage types could also be chosen, which would be at a disadvantage due to armor, but, as physical damage and armor are a global issue, this disadvantage will be resolved when the global issue is resolved.

Then Shockwave could be changed so that it spreads the strike damage to other advanced mobs. I think that Shockwave could have its chance of occurrence set to 100%, but have a duration and cooldown, which I think would encourage tactical play, enable build diversity, provide the player with more interaction and enhance the player's sense of agency.

I would be tempted to replace Death Touch with the new ability but would there be any harm in retaining Death Touch and giving it an exponential power curve due to its low impact on high level content?

Thanks for reading this.

P.S. I take it for granted that strike damage would be adjusted to desired levels.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#2 Post by Xelphiem » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:04 pm

As nice as this sounds, I don't like the idea of changing the damage type of the unarmed strikes. I would enjoy vastly more options for shockwave such as necrotic, radiant, and potentially acid, but changing the damage of the strikes themselves I do not like. The reason for this is that there are two guilds that gain the ability to change the damage types of their unarmed strikes, Sinshade through demon form (which is nearly unnoticeable), and wild enclave through tiger aspect. Though I have been told that tiger aspect does not yet work and I have no confirmation on the damage type change from demon form though it is supposed to, these two abilities change the damage type of unarmed strikes. By giving that ability to unarmed combat and making it a skill choice rather than a guild choice, these two guilds would have an ability taken away from them that would need replacing.
I do like how shockwave is currently, but I would say that it would be very nice for it to potentially deal physical damage, that would be an interesting take. Furthermore, I agree with you on your thoughts on death touch, it doesn't deal nearly enough damage because it doesn't scale effectively with level. It needs to have the base damage equivalent to my critical damage with it, which is around twice as much damage as it currently deals. Right now, it's just an ability I use to speed up occasionally annoying monster fights as it doesn't kill them, doesn't heal them, and has too long of a cool down to remain useful. I imagine it's even worse for people using full light armor or mixed equipment, which would give them very little reason to keep using death touch or just setting it up on a trigger instead of actively waiting and using it when it's necessary.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#3 Post by Dsiban » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:02 am

Thank you very much for your response, Xelphiem.

I agree with you that I wouldn't want demons or tiger aspect enclavers to lose their special flavor. You're correct in saying that the piercing strike damage as it stands is unnoticable and is not quite working correctly in the case of tiger aspect's bleed. Also, having one round of backstab strikes is a negligible damage increase in a stealth build, so it's mostly a flavor thing.

As far as flavor goes, wouldn't a demon only deal piercing, by way of claws, when demon form is active? What could be done is to give both tiger aspect and demon form a hefty bonus to piercing damage, much as a half-orc's innate charge gives a bonus to the riding charge. This way, an enclaver like me could go all-in on being a gut-ripping beast, and a demon would temporarily become a clawed terror.

I do have an imaginative issue with Shockwave expanding physical damage to multiple mobs though. How would a Shockwave even transmit piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning strikes to a mass of mobs? Perhaps the concept of a Shockwave could be reconceptualized to one of a soul, karmic, or spirit link? The unarmed user - let's face it, Monk - temporarily connects the souls of the enemies in an empathetic or literal bond that causes the damage done to the one to be manifested on the other.

By the way, being able to choose one's physical damage type also has a nice tie-in with the Army's capstone guild ability in which the three physical damage types gain bonus affects.

Again, good on ya for reading this.

Insight edit : I've never liked the way my unarmed dude slap-boxes with enemies while a ball of terribly powerful energy pulses around him. I feel that it takes away from the physicality and martial nature of the character. I believe that my proposed changes are a way to shift the focus from blast generator to kung-fu master.
Last edited by Dsiban on Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#4 Post by Rikis » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:08 am

Dsiban wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:32 am
I think that Shockwave could have its chance of occurrence set to 100%, but have a duration and cooldown
Disagree, Stunning Fist is already nigh useless and having a cooldown is part of it. I don't want to see Shockwave go down the same route. Considering it's a big part of the automatic damage of Unarmed, it's cooldown would have to be 5 seconds or less and do as much damage or more.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#5 Post by Dsiban » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:33 am

Heya, Rikis.

Stunning Fist does feel nigh useless to me when I'm fighting a stun immune enemy or when it misses, both of which can happen pretty frequently. I think that the difference with Shockwave is that it never misses and enemies are never immune, so it should never feel useless.

The damage that shockwave adds would be incorporated into strike base damage, so for single target engagements the damage would be the same (higher really, with vulnerability hunting). I do see what you mean with automatic damage being added by Shockwave to multiple mob engagements. I think that the cooldown and duration (or absence of both) of Shockwave can be adjusted to what works best for the most people. Should Shockwave remain an automatic damage multiplier as more enemies advance? Should it have a cooldown and increase base damage, allowing for a burst of damage? I agree that a long cooldown would be horrible, as I'd want to use this every fight.

Thanks for the feedback.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#6 Post by Dsiban » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:06 am

I'll add that my conservative approach to adjusting unarmed would be to increase the damage of strikes, add more Shockwave damage types and boost Death Touch damage.

A little less conservatively (and based on my understanding of Xel's idea), I'd base the Shockwave proc rate on level rather than rank, minimizing the impact of Enlightment and Learned (the elven racial, if memory serves) on Shockwave. This would make Mysticism less mandatory for unarmed users and give a little more oomph to levelling gains, especially post level 100, where leveling gains are minimal. One could then look forward to the day when shockwaves always occur.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#7 Post by Mordus » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:19 am

I don't have have anything to add about mechanics, but I'd like to request a reduction in combat text. Here's what a single unarmed attack with full procs looks like:
You throw a haymaker at a Spectral Dragon and connect for light damage.
You deal 754 damage.

You stomp a foot down on a Spectral Dragon for light damage.
You deal 1,190 critical damage.

You unleash a massive shockwave with your attacks!
A Spectral Dragon is hit by an intense wave of heat for 1,532 damage!

[2] seconds...

2889/2889 1937/1937 (1) Adv:1/1 <Molten Strength>
Ignoring the prompt line, with a config of brief combat and no evaluate, that's 11 lines of text every second (because we're hasted, because it doubles damage output). Between just me and my pet while soloing, I sometimes I have trouble keeping up with what's going on if there are multiple mobs - let alone grouping.

Others have said that they like the multiple lighter attacks feel of it, which is fine, but couldn't it still be condensed to one or two lines based on whether there are flurry and/or shockwave procs? I don't know whether the MUD can check for the procs before deciding the output text.

If not, just removing the blank lines and the carriage between hit and damage would be a big help. This could be a feature of the brief config option. If it could also remove the delay indicator (I know what it's going to be), that'd be great.

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Re: A New Way To Unarmed

#8 Post by zorian » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:20 pm

Personally I'd like a few things with shockwave.

I'd like it to be single target or added into fist damage as an elemental fist. With the damage being higher but only hitting one target. Along with being able to use other elemental types of damage. We already can't use imbue/bless etc so shockwave is all we get. It should be unique and strong. It's the unarmed trees main source of damage.

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